Remarkable reminiscence- I agree with Mick Scott’s comment. The times are concerning. My Dad, MSgt. MC Davis served in WWII and Korea. He retired from the USAF earlier than he had planned. He learned he was due to be assigned to Vietnam. When I asked him why he was retiring early he said simply “Two wars are enough for any man.” I thought how simple a statement but so profound.
More of your great reporting and storytelling, Jim. Your dad's reticence for all those years was another act of will and courage, because the tales he had to tell were horror stories. He spared his family, friends and countrymen from the horrors of war. So many veterans have done that, another act of courage on our behalf.
I don't know if it's the unease in LA and NYC that led you to repost this, but it's appropriate for the day. I think a lot of those ICE guys are going to suffer unexpected consequences for their actions.
Mr MS - why are the ICE guys gong to suffer, do you analogize them to the Daddy, just following orders to do a morally questionable act? How is removing criminals allowed to enter our country under false permission akin to this story? What is the solution tben?
Hi, Doubting T, I appreciate your question, and I hope I do not misunderstand you as I try to answer.
I don't know what you mean by "false permission," but if a government policy gives people permission to be in the country, then they have permission to be in the country. Whether you *like* the policy is irrelevant. ICE has been documented to be taking people who have permission to be here and deporting them. That's illegal and immoral.
I've read that morale among ICE agents is low; it certainly doesn't help them to have White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller railing at them for not doing an adequate job. Any agent who joined immigration services thinking, "I want to serve our country" must, if he or she has a conscience, be questioning his or her actions. They're ripping children from their parents' arms and, in some cases, leaving them stranded on the street. They're conducting sweeps in which they arrest whole groups of people with little idea who they are. Do you think a person of good conscience could do that without feeling a sense of remorse or regret?
I fear we're going to learn about an increase in alcohol abuse, drug abuse and suicide among ICE ranks. Those are the unexpected consequences of forcing good people to do bad things.
On top of which, they could be prosecuted for overzealously attacking the public. They're certainly not creating goodwill among the public by attacking innocent bystanders.
This is a volatile situation, and it's also one that is multi-layered. It requires thought to resolve. Trump's attitude - "you're going to do what I say" - does not help. Nobody likes to be ordered around.
I think the immigration problem could be solved. It could have been solved decades ago when President Reagan suggested amnesty for illegal immigrants and a pathway toward citizenship. It's not too late to take that approach.
But I also understand that it's not so easy; especially when one political party benefits by keeping the problems alive.
having immigration at the southern border surge by 4X from prior years to the biden era was a clear sign to everyone it was a purposeful overloading of the system and defiance of laws already on the books, both at the border and within; to advance a political or ideological end - and that's where the focus and angst should lie, on the party/group who played with people's lives in the originating country, to convince them to leave THEIR home and THEIR families, under a false pretense they would have a home here - that was a lie and the people/parties making it knew it to be so; we should not place the burdens (or the mental anguish of ICE agents, as you say, for doing their jobs -- and might I say you make a significant assertion they are facing moral crises) on the current administration for the sins of the prior decision-makers -- indeed, I would argue this all was easily predictable and foreseeable, and maybe even desired, that these scenes would play out as they are, and the captured institutions of media, academia and religious institutions all in line to echo the script of the collapse of our democracy. Laws of all stripe and kind must be honored, those who entered illegally must be expected to comply, full stop.
Friend, no offense, but this is a little hard to follow. A forum like this is not ideal for lengthy conversations, and neither of us is likely to get far with it. But let me suggest organizing your thoughts and using paragraph breaks – it assists the reader if you put your thoughts in smaller chunks.
I’ve heard this idea before, that Democrats “purposefully” invited illegal immigrants to come here. At the same time, I’ve seen immigration numbers go up and down, both during Trump’s first term and during President Biden’s term. I don’t think it pans out.
We have a saying about “speaking the quiet part out loud.” Politicians tend to give themselves away, sometimes speaking to the public, sometimes speaking to smaller groups, like when then-Sen. Richard Burr told the public not to worry about COVID but told a smaller group to prepare for its impact; or Project 2025’s roadmap for what Trump is doing now, right down to sending the military to suppress protests.
I’ve never seen any statement from a Democratic official or even a liberal pundit inviting illegal immigrants to come to the United States. I’d be interested if you could show me one. I’ve only seen it as an assertion from Republicans who seek to condemn President Biden. It just seems to be part of a well-planned narrative to turn people against immigrants.
This idea of Democrats promoting an “invasion” is also adjacent to the “great replacement” theory pushed by white supremacists. Conservative pundits are today claiming that “multiculturalism” is out of hand and we need to ban all “third world immigration,” legal or otherwise. I can show you Trump administrators who, like Trump, use only the vilest language to talk about immigrants. These are the people who claimed that immigrants – legal immigrants – in Springfield, Ohio, were eating people’s pets.
But even if increased immigration was “purposeful,” for whatever reason, immigrants claiming refugee status was legal. Expecting refugees to “comply” with Trump’s fascist tamp-down is asking them to go home and risk being murdered; risk their children being sold out to prostitution or drug dealing. I do not blame a single refugee who decides to stay here illegally instead.
Indeed, as ICE goes after people with legal status, more will skip their immigration hearings and become illegal refugees. Is that “purposeful”? Is that what Trump wants?
I've also heard it claimed that by eliminating the budget cap while giving further tax breaks to billionaires, the GOP is purposely trying to bankrupt the country so it can then justify eliminating the social safety net. Is that credible? I can show you actual Republican officials actually saying that we need to eliminate Social Security.
ICE is going after people – including American citizens – indiscriminately, to fill Stephen Miller’s arbitrary quota. That constitutes false arrest.
A few days ago, the acting director of ICE asked protesters to go easier on its agents. “These are real people with real families you’re hurting,” he said. The irony – that ICE is hurting real people with real families – was lost on him. But not on me.
We must also keep in mind that practically everything Trump says is a lie.
Remarkable reminiscence- I agree with Mick Scott’s comment. The times are concerning. My Dad, MSgt. MC Davis served in WWII and Korea. He retired from the USAF earlier than he had planned. He learned he was due to be assigned to Vietnam. When I asked him why he was retiring early he said simply “Two wars are enough for any man.” I thought how simple a statement but so profound.
One war is too many, Dave, and Vietnam was one of our more obscene political moments. Your dad was wise to demur.
More of your great reporting and storytelling, Jim. Your dad's reticence for all those years was another act of will and courage, because the tales he had to tell were horror stories. He spared his family, friends and countrymen from the horrors of war. So many veterans have done that, another act of courage on our behalf.
So heartbreaking.
I don't know if it's the unease in LA and NYC that led you to repost this, but it's appropriate for the day. I think a lot of those ICE guys are going to suffer unexpected consequences for their actions.
When are we going to learn?
You’re reading my mind again, Mick.
Mr MS - why are the ICE guys gong to suffer, do you analogize them to the Daddy, just following orders to do a morally questionable act? How is removing criminals allowed to enter our country under false permission akin to this story? What is the solution tben?
Hi, Doubting T, I appreciate your question, and I hope I do not misunderstand you as I try to answer.
I don't know what you mean by "false permission," but if a government policy gives people permission to be in the country, then they have permission to be in the country. Whether you *like* the policy is irrelevant. ICE has been documented to be taking people who have permission to be here and deporting them. That's illegal and immoral.
I've read that morale among ICE agents is low; it certainly doesn't help them to have White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen Miller railing at them for not doing an adequate job. Any agent who joined immigration services thinking, "I want to serve our country" must, if he or she has a conscience, be questioning his or her actions. They're ripping children from their parents' arms and, in some cases, leaving them stranded on the street. They're conducting sweeps in which they arrest whole groups of people with little idea who they are. Do you think a person of good conscience could do that without feeling a sense of remorse or regret?
I fear we're going to learn about an increase in alcohol abuse, drug abuse and suicide among ICE ranks. Those are the unexpected consequences of forcing good people to do bad things.
On top of which, they could be prosecuted for overzealously attacking the public. They're certainly not creating goodwill among the public by attacking innocent bystanders.
This is a volatile situation, and it's also one that is multi-layered. It requires thought to resolve. Trump's attitude - "you're going to do what I say" - does not help. Nobody likes to be ordered around.
I think the immigration problem could be solved. It could have been solved decades ago when President Reagan suggested amnesty for illegal immigrants and a pathway toward citizenship. It's not too late to take that approach.
But I also understand that it's not so easy; especially when one political party benefits by keeping the problems alive.
Does this help?
having immigration at the southern border surge by 4X from prior years to the biden era was a clear sign to everyone it was a purposeful overloading of the system and defiance of laws already on the books, both at the border and within; to advance a political or ideological end - and that's where the focus and angst should lie, on the party/group who played with people's lives in the originating country, to convince them to leave THEIR home and THEIR families, under a false pretense they would have a home here - that was a lie and the people/parties making it knew it to be so; we should not place the burdens (or the mental anguish of ICE agents, as you say, for doing their jobs -- and might I say you make a significant assertion they are facing moral crises) on the current administration for the sins of the prior decision-makers -- indeed, I would argue this all was easily predictable and foreseeable, and maybe even desired, that these scenes would play out as they are, and the captured institutions of media, academia and religious institutions all in line to echo the script of the collapse of our democracy. Laws of all stripe and kind must be honored, those who entered illegally must be expected to comply, full stop.
Friend, no offense, but this is a little hard to follow. A forum like this is not ideal for lengthy conversations, and neither of us is likely to get far with it. But let me suggest organizing your thoughts and using paragraph breaks – it assists the reader if you put your thoughts in smaller chunks.
I’ve heard this idea before, that Democrats “purposefully” invited illegal immigrants to come here. At the same time, I’ve seen immigration numbers go up and down, both during Trump’s first term and during President Biden’s term. I don’t think it pans out.
We have a saying about “speaking the quiet part out loud.” Politicians tend to give themselves away, sometimes speaking to the public, sometimes speaking to smaller groups, like when then-Sen. Richard Burr told the public not to worry about COVID but told a smaller group to prepare for its impact; or Project 2025’s roadmap for what Trump is doing now, right down to sending the military to suppress protests.
I’ve never seen any statement from a Democratic official or even a liberal pundit inviting illegal immigrants to come to the United States. I’d be interested if you could show me one. I’ve only seen it as an assertion from Republicans who seek to condemn President Biden. It just seems to be part of a well-planned narrative to turn people against immigrants.
This idea of Democrats promoting an “invasion” is also adjacent to the “great replacement” theory pushed by white supremacists. Conservative pundits are today claiming that “multiculturalism” is out of hand and we need to ban all “third world immigration,” legal or otherwise. I can show you Trump administrators who, like Trump, use only the vilest language to talk about immigrants. These are the people who claimed that immigrants – legal immigrants – in Springfield, Ohio, were eating people’s pets.
But even if increased immigration was “purposeful,” for whatever reason, immigrants claiming refugee status was legal. Expecting refugees to “comply” with Trump’s fascist tamp-down is asking them to go home and risk being murdered; risk their children being sold out to prostitution or drug dealing. I do not blame a single refugee who decides to stay here illegally instead.
Indeed, as ICE goes after people with legal status, more will skip their immigration hearings and become illegal refugees. Is that “purposeful”? Is that what Trump wants?
I've also heard it claimed that by eliminating the budget cap while giving further tax breaks to billionaires, the GOP is purposely trying to bankrupt the country so it can then justify eliminating the social safety net. Is that credible? I can show you actual Republican officials actually saying that we need to eliminate Social Security.
ICE is going after people – including American citizens – indiscriminately, to fill Stephen Miller’s arbitrary quota. That constitutes false arrest.
A few days ago, the acting director of ICE asked protesters to go easier on its agents. “These are real people with real families you’re hurting,” he said. The irony – that ICE is hurting real people with real families – was lost on him. But not on me.
We must also keep in mind that practically everything Trump says is a lie.
It's awful .... kids being thrown into a war. How horrible to keep that image all your life. Glad your Dad , our Hero, opened up to you.